Speaker 0 00:00:08 Welcome to the rogue startups podcast. We're to startup founders are sharing lessons learned and pitfalls to avoid in their online businesses. And now here's Dave and Craig. All right. Welcome to episode
Speaker 1 00:00:22 2 55 of rogue startups. Craig, how are you? My friend.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 I'm good, man. I'm good. Uh, I'm better today than I was yesterday. We were supposed to record this yesterday on our regular day and I messaged you and I said, I can't, you don't want to talk to me today. I don't want to talk to anybody today. Let's uh, let's postpone this for a day. So, but today, today is a better day.
Speaker 3 00:00:45 Yeah. So here's something I've noticed since I've gone full time on my business here, I have kind of alternating days of where, you know, things are going really well with the business, but I might be like w having a slight shit show with my kids or like with school or, you know, my kids have been in school for the past week and they've already been exposed to COVID twice. Um, we actually thought that my middle daughter had COVID cause she started showing symptoms. Thank God. She just had a cold, but you know, two COVID tests later, we finally convinced ourselves she's good. And we could send her back to school, but you know, my business stuff is great. And then I'm having like this personal shit show going on with the school district, not masking. And you know, obviously one of the schools has now said, they're not going to do contact tracing or anything like that. So my wife and I are privately freaking out about all of this stuff over here, trying to keep our kids safe and figure out how we're going to be able to do that while things are good in the business over here. So, you know, I feel your whole shit show thing. It seems to move around a little bit, but
Speaker 2 00:01:50 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what's, what's the most difficult about all of that is, you know, it's been 18 months now that we've been in this limbo hell hole and it's worse almost now, you know? Cause like a bunch of us got vaccinated and we felt like shit for a couple of days. And like we all thought that would be, you know, this liberating thing and now like it's not, you know, and in a lot of ways, like it's worse, I think, um, like emotionally and socially than, than it was before. I mean here in France, like the health pass is a very polarizing thing, you know? And like if you've been vaccinated your passport. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have to have it basically to do anything except go to the grocery store, all sporting events, all public transportation, all like big shopping areas, restaurants, bars, cafes, even outside, you have to have it.
Speaker 2 00:02:51 Um, you have to have it or approve of a negative COVID test. And I mean, there's a lot of people that say like, I don't want to get vaccinated and like that's not me, but, but I, I don't know. It's, it's super complicated. I think they have more of a right to say, I don't want to get vaccinated. Then, then the health passes is giving them, you know, like it's basically you have to get vaccinated if you want to do anything. And I think that people should have a bit of a right to say, I don't want to get vaccinated and you basically need to be really careful and kind of quarantine yourself. I don't know, but this is the whole, this whole tangent, but yeah, it's, it's a complicated yeah, good show.
Speaker 3 00:03:30 This is, this is not the, the, the road COVID
Speaker 1 00:03:33 Podcast here. So I don't
Speaker 3 00:03:35 Want to, I don't want to freak anybody out. We're actually going to talk business. I promise.
Speaker 2 00:03:40 But anyway, so suffice to say, uh, it's, it's a complicated social kind of sort of psychological time, but uh, yeah, the business, I can't complain businesses going good. And you, yeah. You know,
Speaker 3 00:03:52 Overall it's good. And there are definitely some pluses and minuses now. So I was thinking about, you know, something that Chris lemma and if you're not on Chris lemmas email list, by the way, I strongly recommend this because he's been on like a tear. So for 229 days straight, he's written an article and the article, I mean he writes high quality stuff. So like maybe not every single article applies to you or you like it, but you'll get something in your inbox every damn day. And you know, I find probably about 75% of these articles are ones that I would want to read now. I mean, I'm also in the WordPress space, so there's probably a little more overlap, but I'd say at least 50%, that's pretty high for somebody that's writing that many articles. Right. So anyway, side, side, tangent on that. But so Chris lemma sent out something, he says, life has poker, not chess.
Speaker 3 00:04:44 So you're not like trying to create the perfect game from this set of pieces that you start with and that every move like locks you into a bunch of things in there. It's not like that at all. It's more like you're just making a series of bets on things and the strength of your hand has a lot to do with how much you might want to bet on something. Right? So that's the poker analogy and you know, I'm kind of feeling like that's what I've been doing lately with recapture. So, you know, I have, I feel like I, you know, I might compare it more to like black Jack at this point. Cause you can play more than one blackjack hand at once. You can't play more than one poker hand at once. So let's say I had like three hands of blackjack. There might be a strong one, a middle one and a weak one.
Speaker 3 00:05:33 And I'm playing all three of them at the same time to kind of see which one pays off and you know, I'm betting on them accordingly. And so there's all these things that I'm working with on recapture at the same time. And you know, some of them are going well, some of them are going okay, some are going shitty. And you know, I feel like that first, you know, I wouldn't have had bandwidth to do this three months ago if I hadn't quit. So this is great. Yeah. And now that I've got that bandwidth, you know, I mean, there's all kinds of things that are opening up and I'm getting to do, but you know, the fact that I've got these experiments out there, the fact that I've got stuff on the table means that, you know, there's possibilities to move it forward. Whereas before the most I had the bandwidth for was one hand and that had better been a good hand. Right. You know, I mean, you're, you're kind of risking more by playing just one hand, it's gotta be strong and you gotta bet. Well, and you've got to hope that you're gonna do well as a result of that. Cause you know, the dealer gets 21 and you've got 21 too bad. Right. So yeah. I mean, that's kind of where things have been with recapture lately. Are
Speaker 2 00:06:42 There things about the, the things that are working or that aren't working, that you can kind of pattern match to say like, oh, this kind of general approach probably doesn't work. I shouldn't explore variations of that or this one is, and I should do a bunch more of that kind of thing. Even if the exact approach you took isn't, isn't exactly working. I wouldn't
Speaker 3 00:07:04 Say pattern matching is going to be the right way to think about this here. So let me throw out a couple here. So one of them that's not working for me and we've been working on it since God, I don't know, March, April is Facebook ads. So originally my goal was to go and create some Facebook campaigns that were going to promote awareness around SMS. And my thesis at the time was there is a lot of untapped interest in SMS and there's also a lot of UN fulfilled educational need in SMS because there's a lot of merchants and businesses that are, that want to use this that had been told, this is a good thing for them to go for, but they're not really sure how to get started. That was kind of my, my feeling based on merchants. I talked to in recapture, based on other articles I saw out there based on other vendors that were kind of doing similar things.
Speaker 3 00:08:04 And I thought, all right, I can do this. If I attack it with this specific niche. And I mean, we just took a really long, I mean, I, so I didn't realize, and you know, maybe I hired an agency that does things a different way than, uh, than others, but I thought this would be a pretty quick turnaround kind of thing. Like within a couple of months we would be up and running and have some knowledge. Well, that's kinda not how it went at all. It was, you know, let's test this one thing. We're going to try to warm up this audience. We're going to try to build up here. We're going to create this lookalike audience based on this other stuff. And we're going to send this creative to them and we'll see how they react to it. And you know, it was like this tweaking process that took a really long time.
Speaker 3 00:08:47 And then I thought, you know, we were going through this series of steps and at the end of it was going to be, Hey, now we've told you all about this stuff and we're going to pitch recapture to you because of course we captured does all these things that we've been talking about. And when we did that to a warm audience too, and we tried all different creatives, you know, we tried image creatives, we tried video creatives, we tried different kinds of both of those sort of things. We tried them in combination, everything fell flat. Like it really surprised me. It seemed like at first we were getting a lot of interests and that things were going well. And the more I'm reading about Facebook stuff, it seems like there's a lot of stats about Facebook ads that look really good when you're running things.
Speaker 3 00:09:34 But when you get down to the conversions, it turns into shit because they're inflating their stuff and I've seen this go going back to 2018. And you know, there were people that actually filed lawsuits against Facebook because of this stuff. And they claim that they fixed it and whatever, but you know, my read on my campaigns on all this different data that we've been trying with an experienced agency that truly knows Facebook stuff and that they've been working at for other people, it's just not working for us. And so like we switched tactics after that to say, all right, let's just try doing a cold audience and try to pitch them recapture straight up. Do they respond better that way? And you know, uh, first of all, I'm getting insanely high cost per leads to try to get them to a form to sign up.
Speaker 3 00:10:18 And then when we get them to the form, uh, you know, I'm getting people that put their emails in there and then, you know, my follow-ups on this are, I'm having zero luck. Like not a little luck I'm having zero luck. No, none of those leads are responding to anything. And you know, I mean, I'm not an email bozo. So I would hope after, you know, sub a hundred leads that you could figure out something in there. Like somebody would say something, no, I'm not interested fuck off Dave. Yes. I'd like to try this or, you know, a signup, something, nothing. I mean, I've got nothing, no feedback whatsoever. So, you know, we burn several thousand dollars. I think I'm somewhere between five and seven at this point on this experiment. And we're kind of in a latch last ditch effort this week. And I don't really expect it to pan out, so I'll be shutting it down. So that's a bet that, you know, I thought was good and this hand has turned into shit.
Speaker 2 00:11:20 I haven't run any Facebook ads in a long time. And yeah, I mean, I think paid acquisition in general is, is, is kinda tough. I think there's a lot of like alignment you have to have with like your audience and the message and the offer and kind of their, their mindset when they're on that platform, whether it's Facebook or LinkedIn or, you know, Google ad words. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah. I would agree. I mean, if you're in this last week and nothing has worked so far, I wouldn't suspect that everything will change all of a sudden to what, what agency are you to, to, to help you manage it?
Speaker 3 00:11:56 I don't want to mention them here. Cause I mean, this is obviously not right. I mean, no, no I'm not. And uh, yeah, so, I mean, I've been using this agency they're out of Arizona and they, you know, the guy that runs it, Jordan, great guy, very experienced, very knowledgeable, uh, has a great team behind him. They've helped me a lot with creatives and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, it just doesn't the, the, the impact to my audience doesn't seem to be there for this particular thing. And I, in reality, I probably shouldn't be that surprised at it because all of my acquisition to date that's been successful has been through marketplaces app stores and like the WordPress repository where people have a specific intent looking for those things. And now with Facebook, I'm going to a place where they're talking with their grandparents, posting cat pictures and having, you know, rude political discussions, right.
Speaker 3 00:12:54 Recapture doesn't fit in any of those genres. So why would I necessarily think that it was going to work? I mean, you know, that's probably part of the naivete there with that said, I've seen other people that have been able to make it work. And I thought, you know, with the right audience targeting and segmenting, uh, and audience building and stuff like that, cause you can build up based on certain interests and you used to be able to do it based on groups they belong to. And I had a bunch of emails for some, some old groups that we use to help build the audience and stuff like that. So I felt like we had some decent stuff in there and you know, it could just be that my thesis was wrong. It could be that we sucked in our approach at it. But you know, we tried a lot of different variants in there. So I feel like we at least covered a pretty good amount of ground, but yeah, so far cold Facebook stuff and even warm Facebook to stuff just doesn't seem to resonate with recapture. Mm.
Speaker 2 00:13:51 Yeah. And, um, I'm sorry to hear that. It's, that's a bummer. I mean, we've, uh, we've definitely had our share of like failed customer acquisition approaches and, and seem to keep coming back to a lot of them. I mean, I think there's only so many things that you can do, you know, as part of it, you know, it's like Facebook may not be the channel, but maybe it's LinkedIn or Twitter, cold email or something like that. But I mean, there's only like a handful, a handful of things, you know, when it, when it comes down to it. And I think that, I don't know, it's tough to think about like sticking with something like that. That's so expensive until you can make it work. It makes me think about, and I'm, I'm talking kind of to myself a little here. I'm like, it makes me think about like I was at SAS stock, like a SAS conference in Ireland a couple of years ago and like three talks in a row from like really successful, you know, $50 million plus companies had different like customers, acquisition tactics that they use to get there.
Speaker 2 00:14:48 You know, one was content, one was paid acquisition, one was email. And I was just like, that's exactly it. You know, like any of these can work if you spend the time and the money and the resources and the expertise to, to make it work, you know, like, I don't think, I don't think that like it, Facebook can't work for you, you know, or cold email can't work for us. I think it's that like, we sometimes like we get off on the wrong foot and we get gun shy because like something doesn't work, you know, and we don't want to keep throwing good money after bad and sunk cost fallacy and all that kind of stuff. Like, whereas like maybe you're just like one thing away from, from making it work. I'm not, I'm not telling you to stick with it, but I'm just kind of like opining about, there's not this vast world of marketing approaches that we can take. There's a dozen things maybe that we can do. And like finding that one, you know, is, is kind of the thing. And maybe that's not it for you, but I, I know I'm just kind of ranting at this point. Yeah, no,
Speaker 3 00:15:49 I mean, I, so this is one of those things where if I was a funded company and I had a deeper budget specifically that I could dedicate to trying to figure this out, like it would, first of all, allow me to place multiple bets because right now I'm very focused on one bet based on the, the size of the budget that I have. Like, I can't go bigger than that because I'm, you know, I have to support myself. I have to support Mike, my developer, uh, you know, I got to support the infrastructure in the business and, you know, I still have to have enough in over leftover to run the business and other expenses and stuff like that. So my experimental chunk that's left is not very huge. And so when I allocate it, you know, I'm taking a risk and you know, that also is a time cost in addition to a money costs.
Speaker 3 00:16:39 So, you know, I'm running this experiment and we've been doing it since April. So that's four months, right? March, April five, four or five months. That's another opportunity cost in there. You know, if I had had a bigger budget, then I probably could have said, all right, let's try five different things. We're going to try ad words. We're going to try these three things on Facebook. We're going to try LinkedIn. We're going to try this other thing. We've got money to throw at all of them. Right. And then you can get a better idea of what things are working and what things are not. So for me, that was a little bit different. Like I can do this one paid acquisition thing and I'll all afford that. And then we're doing some other stuff, building a, another app, which I'm not going to talk about yet.
Speaker 3 00:17:19 That's a surprise, surprise. I'm going to, yeah. Yeah. So that's one of the things that we're working on. That's a, another bed, an app and an adjacent thing in e-commerce. And this one I think has got some potential to it and I can do some cross-marketing. Uh, and if I don't have cross-marketing, I think I can also just use straight up keywords in app stores to get it, uh, and it looks like there's lower competition on it. So that's all those things are good. Right? Yep. And I could do it pretty cheaply too. Uh, that was the other thing, like if this was going to be six months and, you know, $80,000 or a hundred thousand dollars that wasn't going to work, but this, we could do pretty cheaply. So that's an experiment we're trying that one seems like it's got some pretty high payoff in there.
Speaker 3 00:18:05 It's a pretty strong hand if we're going back to the analogy. Right. Uh, and then, you know, I've got a middle east strategy here where we're trying to go after Jilt customers based on cold emails. And that so far has been working out pretty well. Like I would say it's kind of our middle lean strategy. It's working out well, it's definitely not poor, but you know, I'm not seeing five figures of MRR out of it. Um, and I didn't necessarily think we were going to get that, but you know, it's a slow burn on this here. It just takes time and we're introducing them to recapture and stuff like that. So, you know, there's only so many strategies I can run at once. Cause you know, I am ultimately the limit of this business, but if I had more money, bigger staff, more, you know, if somebody's job was to think only about paid acquisition, my guess is I would probably see a very different
Speaker 2 00:19:00 Result than what we're seeing now. Yep. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:04 I mean, that's, that's where, uh, that's where things are at with recapture. Um, what, uh, what's going on with Casto. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:12 So I mean we, um, yeah, I think that's where we have been fortunate to have people in most kind of areas of the company who like they wake up and all they think about is a pretty specific thing, you know, and we are definitely shipping better products, executing better sales and marketing, you know, all of that because we have, at this point, we just onboarded or started onboarding our two AEs this Monday. And so now we have, you know, product design front-end and back-end development infrastructure. I did dev dev ops, whatever support, success, marketing sales, and then me, you know, we're 15 full-time people and yeah, I mean, it's amazing to see the depth that everybody is going, you know, in their little world inside the business. And I'm trying to like, wow, I mean, with the sales, the two new sales guys that we brought on, like really just spending a ton of time and energy, getting them up to speed as quickly as possible because the thesis is there'll be really transformational in terms of like revenue growth.
Speaker 2 00:20:24 Um, and, and it's just a matter of getting them talking, you know, our language and in front of customers and outbound and prospecting and handling inbound leads and stuff like that. But, but like looking a little past that say like in a couple months, what's those guys are, are kind of up to speed. Like I think we'll be entering a phase of like running the business where everything is taken of, you know, and, and then like, I'll probably feel a bit like, all right now, like where is my time best used in the business? You know? Cause it's still been like a little bit of product and a lot of like taking sales calls and managing the sales process for inbound leads. And now that those guys are going to be taking care of that, like I'll have to going to reevaluate my, my focus and priorities again. So that's looking forward a little bit. That's super cool. Yeah. That's a, that's a cool place to be. I mean, it probably is a little scary, you know, you
Speaker 3 00:21:22 Are, you are definitely farther ahead than where I met with recapture here since it's just two of us and you've got 15, but yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a really cool place to be, I think.
Speaker 2 00:21:34 Yeah. I mean, it's like, I went through this about a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago where like we brought, you know, a couple of developers on some people for support and, and we had marketing taken care of, and I was kind of lost then. And like now we'll be, now we'll be again, you know, looking towards the new year maybe. But, um, yeah, I mean, I can talk a little bit about like the sales folks that we brought on because it's, it's pretty interesting. Like I talked and so we have a, every Monday we have like a team meeting and so it's everybody, you know, on a call. It's the only time we all get together all week. And I made the analogy that like thus far, we have been like a company of push, you know, product and marketing really, uh, have been pushing, you know, the, the product and the brand and everything into the market.
Speaker 2 00:22:21 And the way I view it is sales specially dedicated salespeople. And we saw this with Chris at podcast. Motor is like salespeople pull the company into a new direction, you know, partly because that's just who they are. And partly because they're like financially incentivized to do that. And, and so it's something that like I wanted to, to kind of like prep the team on, because a lot of, a lot of our team members, haven't been a part of a company that have sales people before, you know, like they've worked, uh, like for government or like super small businesses where they were like, they were also the salesperson, but like introducing salespeople into an existing business is kind of like a dynamic shifting thing. And like we're two and a half days into it and we already see it. Like they're already coming to us and saying like, Hey, what about this?
Speaker 2 00:23:13 Hey, I need more of that. Hey, what about pricing and packaging for this? Hey, where do I find this thing? And like, it's a really invigorating thing, you know, like to an extent. And I think that like the caveat to that is like the company and the product and the support and success and all that have to be able to now support the salespeople, doing all the things they want to do, you know? So it's, it's cool. It's cool. Like, I think we're just the deep kind of size a company that can, can really support sales, you know? Um, cause otherwise the sales people just get frustrated that, you know, the shitty company can't put on, you know, the product and the marketing and everything else that they need to, to be successful as salespeople. So yeah, that's, that's where we are, I guess.
Speaker 3 00:24:00 Yeah. That, so the way that you described that sounds, and this was, you know, this was years and years ago with me, but it sounded very familiar. So I worked at a C and C plus plus gooey toolkit company called XPT, which stood for extensible virtual toolkit. And when I started working there, I worked in customer support. So I kind of saw like all of the different various organizations because when somebody would call in for customer support, sometimes they'd have to reach out to sales. If it was a certain kind of customer. Sometimes I had to reach out to professional services if they were dealing with something that was some custom work. Sometimes I had to reach out to operations cause we had to ship them patches. This was the very early days of the internet and not everybody had access. So we were literally mailing disks to get send people patches of things that were fixed.
Speaker 3 00:24:47 And you know, sometimes we'd be talking to engineering because there was a big problem that was out there. So it was very, you know, I was involved in a lot of different bits of that company. But when you talked about sales, driving everything, I remember a specific time at that company where sales were exploding. Like every month new records were being set and the company's growth was just off the charts. So it was a really exciting time to be there. And everything was super busy all the time because the sales people were bringing in, Hey, we've got this enterprise deal. We need them to be able to do this. Can we set up this professional services package that, that, you know, we can sell on top of the software over here. And you know, of course the guy that worked at the head of professional services was like, fuck, yeah, we can do that.
Speaker 3 00:25:35 Um, and, and every time the sales people would come in and say, Hey, we need to get this particular feature out. You know, they would sit down with engineering and they, you know, they would work it out and be like, all right, we're going to ship this on this timeframe for these customers, because that means we can close all these large accounts in this business and we can do this growth. So there was like always this dynamism, but it always came from sales. And I, you know, I haven't been in a lot of companies like that since where there's that outbound sales really driving the product vision in a strong way. And then, you know, cause there was also a marketing department, but they were mostly just working with sales to try to support them and make sure that they were able to promote things at trade shows and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 00:26:19 So that more people saw the product and therefore sales would get more calls. So yeah, it was very, it was very exciting. It was very energetic. It could be exhausting at times because there was so much, it was like drinking from a fire hose and customer support when sales was on fire. Oh my God, we were drowning in calls back there because there was just so much interest and so much usage going, you know, we were, we were tasked with staying on top of it. And the same when I moved over to professional services, the same thing was still going on. Sales was still on fire. We every quarter was the busiest quarter we'd ever had and they all got better. So yeah, it was, it was amazing. So, you know, I hope Casto sees that kind of rocket ship growth as a result of bringing these in. If you bring in the right account executives, you can definitely get
Speaker 2 00:27:07 That. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, your, your point about like marketing is, is very true. Like Sam on our team is his title is head of growth, but, but really it's a marketing thing. And even Matt, Matt, Matt, Madeiros like, and me, right. Like our job is to feed sales now. Right. Like before our job was to sell product, now our job is to feed sales and like that's just a really different thing, you know? Right. Almost entirely, it's all really good. Right. But like it's um, yeah, I mean like at my previous job in corporate, yeah. I mean like the sales people had a direct line to like executives at the company, you know, like sales, you know, head salesperson needs this thing. And it's three days before the end of the quarter, like that thing is going to happen, you know? And so like I tried to like prep the team a little bit like, Hey, this is not going to be the same environment, you know, going forward.
Speaker 2 00:28:04 And I, and I wanted to say it with the sales guys there for them to know like, Hey, you have a lot of, you know, power, whatever. Right. Um, influence in the company. And I qualified it with a big thing for us all to do is to make sure we're selling to the right people because that's when sales gets dangerous is, is like they're, if they're incentivized improperly and they go sell to a bunch of poor fit customers and then it's a nightmare for support and success later. So like that's the, that's the balancing act part of it, I think is like sales can definitely drive a whole lot of momentum in the company. And, and like, if it's good, it's great, but it, but it can be very bad. And so that's a lot of what we're talking about here in these first days, it's like, Hey, this is our ideal customer persona. You know, this is the perfect kind of person we want to sell to and okay, how do we go find these people and how do we prospect and how do we build pipeline? Stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:28:59 Well, I hope it works out really well. I expect you'll probably have some growing pains in there as everybody because when you bring a bunch of really smart individuals together who have their own strong ideas about stuff, you know, inevitably there's a little bit of clash until everybody sort of gets into a groove and onto the same page and understands, it's not just about them. It's about the company as a whole and, you know, understanding that selling to bad fit customers really hurts customer success. And that hurts Casos
Speaker 2 00:29:28 In general. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3 00:29:30 Uh, the folks that I was working with at XPT, you talked about having those managers get together. All of the high level managers were constantly having meetings. You know, when sales had a problem, engineering was completely aware of it and customer support was all over it and professional services could back them up. Like they were always there in those same meetings, talking about those customers all the time. Um, you know, and this was like 30, some odd years ago in a very, you know, stodgy industry at the time. But you know, they, they made it work and the fact that they were able to communicate across those channels made for some pretty strong success in the company, which was great.
Speaker 2 00:30:12 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, something that's interesting is, um, and you, you definitely touched on it is like they are a different voice of the customer, right? Like I think support and success are, are a particular voice of the customer. Sales is a different angle on that, you know, and marketing maybe is, is even a different angle yet, but, but like I expect the sales team to have inputs into product, vision and pricing and packaging and stuff like that, that they're like maybe I have had as this kind of person who has a little bit of everything, but, but them seeing it every day, I, I expect it to be a little different or more amplified, you know, in the, in the next couple months. So yeah. Yeah. Exciting times. Exciting times. We'll see. We'll see.
Speaker 3 00:30:58 Exciting. Doesn't always mean, uh, enjoyable. Just, uh,
Speaker 2 00:31:03 Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. I am going on vacation for the first time in a long time. Totally unplugged. No, no nothing. I only go in for four days, but uh, I feel really good that I'll, I will be disconnected email, you know, autoresponder will be on, so yeah. Have a couple of days vacation planned actually here in a couple of days at the end of this week and then going to try to take like a proper week at the end of the year. So yeah, it's good. Making, making progress to the same goal I've had for the last, what, what day three or four years that we've, we've had this, I don't want to take two years off. Two weeks off, two years, two years, two years off would be amazing, but yeah, two years off you'd be bored into it. Yeah, yeah, no, I,
Speaker 3 00:31:47 You know, I've, we've logged. Oh gosh, we've had five camping trips so far one of them a week long. Uh, we just got back from our camping trip last weekend, um, which we cut it a little bit short because my daughter was getting sick with a cold. Although we, at the time we weren't sure if it was COVID or not. Uh, and we've got one camping trip last for the season and I have to say the whole having the freedom and the ability to just be like, you know what, I'm just working four days this week. Fuck that. And I'm only gonna work four days next week too. So there's a four day weekend right there, like that, that freedom, that ability to disconnect, uh, every time has just been a marked improvement. So awesome. I wish you a good four days of unplugging. You deserve it and, uh, you will very much benefit from
Speaker 2 00:32:36 It. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. Looking forward to looking forward to it, for sure. For, uh, yeah. For folks out there that have insights on paid acquisition, Facebook specifically and kind of, yeah. I mean like trials and tribulations or hurdles that they've overcome, uh, or kind of sales, onboarding sales team onboarding stuff should just message
[email protected]. We'd love to hear from you any insights or kind of questions that you have that Dave and I might be able to, to kind of add to. And if you haven't already please share the podcast with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. And we'll see you next week.
Speaker 0 00:33:13 Thanks for listening to another episode of rogue startups. If you haven't already head over to iTunes and leave a rating and review for the show for show notes from each episode and a few extra resources to help you along your journey, head over to rogue startups.com to learn more.
